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the politician suggested the gop should accept president obama's plan to extend tax cuts and debate the tax hikes for the wealthy. >> i do believe we should take things where we agree with the president and take them off the table one at a time. this would strengthen our position in the course of the negotiations. >> joining me e is former governor howard dean and congressman tom davis. hello, you guys. good to have you both. so representative davis, i will begin with you. congressman kohl says this move would strengthen the gop position. do you agree or do you think it's a risky approach? >> well, it's a little of both frankly. when you give that up, there's nothing left for the president to agree to. he's won the day. the problem with that is everybody goes off the cliff at this point. everybody's taxes go up and does that strengthen your position? the problem is you need one spokesman for the republicans. the republicans can't have a lot of members out there freelancing their own ideas. you look divided. >> we had timothy geithner defending the plan to avert the fiscal cliff. let's t
the politician suggested the gop should accept president obama's plan to extend tax cuts and debate the tax hikes for the wealthy. >> i do believe we should take things where we agree with the president and take them off the table one at a time. this would strengthen our position in the course of the negotiations. >> joining me e is former governor howard dean and congressman tom davis. hello, you guys. good to have you both. so representative davis, i will begin with you....
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they're the ones who are going to get hit with the obama taxes and really, i mean, you look at that and you think a normal human being with, you know, would be ashamed of that lack of intellectual honesty, should be. >> it's fascinating economic dri that costco is borrowing the money to pay this dividend. now, usually when companies pay dividends, it's out of earnings, right? >> yes, retained earnings, in this case, they're borrowing, taking on more debt, not to invest in the business in the future growth, but for a one-time equity pay out. >> and to worry about interest rates are low thanks to ben bernanke. >>, but this shows the tax rates combined with very low bore heing costs and instead of investing in growth, you're investing in tax avoidance. >> and russell long said, i've come to the conclusion if you're going to have capitalism, you're going to need capital. >> goes to the heart of this, right? >> pure genius, except what's happening here is that capital could be invested in productive businesses or used next year is being pulled out of 2013, into 2012 so it can be realized as
they're the ones who are going to get hit with the obama taxes and really, i mean, you look at that and you think a normal human being with, you know, would be ashamed of that lack of intellectual honesty, should be. >> it's fascinating economic dri that costco is borrowing the money to pay this dividend. now, usually when companies pay dividends, it's out of earnings, right? >> yes, retained earnings, in this case, they're borrowing, taking on more debt, not to invest in the...
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. >> president obama accusing republicans ever being willing to raise taxes on 98% of americans, while speaker boehner said it's the president when is unwilling to compromise. it's time now for our sunday group. bill crystal of the weekly standard. marcha liason and ed rollins and former democratic senator that you heard. >> each of them are saying they are being reasonable and it's the other side's fault. you have been through your share of washington negotiations. what strikes you about what you heard today? >> i think they both made their case well but i think geithner is in a stronger position in this respect. the president is the president. he can maneuver, he can say my $1.6 trillion and he can say $1.2 trillion. speaker boehner has 135 members. they don't hop to it when he decides to move. he's in a tougher position structurally. in these show downs the white house usually wins and the main reason they win is it's a unitary executive. and congress is in a weaker position. >> all right. >> what happened this week is interesting. both sides are putting out their maximalist positio
. >> president obama accusing republicans ever being willing to raise taxes on 98% of americans, while speaker boehner said it's the president when is unwilling to compromise. it's time now for our sunday group. bill crystal of the weekly standard. marcha liason and ed rollins and former democratic senator that you heard. >> each of them are saying they are being reasonable and it's the other side's fault. you have been through your share of washington negotiations. what strikes you...
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there's $1 trillion of obama care taxes hitting in the next several years, many of them major taxes. if you have a flexible savings account on january 1 -- this isn't the fiscal cliff. this is what obama has already baked into the cake. your flexible savings account will be trashed by taxes. millions of special needs families will find their taxes go up. if you're really sick, you can't deduct as much of your health care costs as you used to. these are all the ways that obama's raising taxes, $1 trillion, $1.1 trillion, over the next decade. five major taxes. his new taxes are not off the table. they hit directly into the middle class. medical devices. when you go to the hospital, medical devices like riding in a wheelchair will get more expensive because of this tax. i mean, these taxes are damaging. he wants to make them permanent. >> i think grover knows that the major source of additional taxes is part of the affordable care act is asking higher income individuals over $250,000 to pay higher capital gains and more on their medicare contribution. that was the bulk of the taxes. so
there's $1 trillion of obama care taxes hitting in the next several years, many of them major taxes. if you have a flexible savings account on january 1 -- this isn't the fiscal cliff. this is what obama has already baked into the cake. your flexible savings account will be trashed by taxes. millions of special needs families will find their taxes go up. if you're really sick, you can't deduct as much of your health care costs as you used to. these are all the ways that obama's raising taxes,...
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i love hearing martin frost and president obama going out will an defending the bush tax cut. they criticize president bush on one side. but then they are out there saying that the tax cut by an large are needed to get the economy to grow. for martin frost -- >> i isn't say that. matt, i did not say that. i said -- >> well, hold on for you to say that president obama won the election. remember you sat in the house of representatives for many years and republicans controlled that house. when democrats controlled that house, they flex their muscles. the republicans in the house have a constitutional obligation to make sure we get a fair compromise. speaker boehner wants that. that is what he is fighting for. >> i think the president does, too. and the republicans can't expect that after he was re-elected on the basis that the rich get to pay a little bit more that the president -- >> i didn't mean that. i didn't mean that. >> eric: okay. prediction, end it there. prediction we won't be going over the fiscal cliff. >> i think we will not go over the tis call cliff and it will be
i love hearing martin frost and president obama going out will an defending the bush tax cut. they criticize president bush on one side. but then they are out there saying that the tax cut by an large are needed to get the economy to grow. for martin frost -- >> i isn't say that. matt, i did not say that. i said -- >> well, hold on for you to say that president obama won the election. remember you sat in the house of representatives for many years and republicans controlled that...
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it's been 16 days since president obama and congressional leaders gathered to talk about how to avoid the fiscal cliff, the automatic spending cuts and tax increases that go into effect january 1. >> i think we're farther apart but we're coming together. >> i think we're nowhere, period. >> thursday treasury secretary tim geithner presented obama's plan, including $1.4 trillion in tax increases. >> there's not going to be an agreement without rates going up. >> president obama also proposed a $16 billion of spending cuts. >> i'm just flabbergasted. i looked at him and said you can't be serious. >> the house speaker says republicans put increased revenues including efforts to close tax loopholes and put the tax cuts on the table instead of raising tax rates for anyone. >> if there's another way to get income from upper income americans that doesn't hurt our economy, then why wouldn't we consider it. >> those are publicly unchanged deadlines. whether political theater or political reality, there's more to going over the fiscal cliff far beyond hypothetical. >> i think we're going over t
it's been 16 days since president obama and congressional leaders gathered to talk about how to avoid the fiscal cliff, the automatic spending cuts and tax increases that go into effect january 1. >> i think we're farther apart but we're coming together. >> i think we're nowhere, period. >> thursday treasury secretary tim geithner presented obama's plan, including $1.4 trillion in tax increases. >> there's not going to be an agreement without rates going up. >>...
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to raise taxes on folks who earn more than $250,000. he repeated that sentiment today. several other republicans said they'll violate his pledge. is there a full fledged revolt now against norquist? >> i think he is losing his influence. i have to add to karen's insight, democrats have elevated him, so has the media. the fact we are talking about him now adds to his mystique and power. i think grover used to be one of the only games in town when it came to spokesmen for this kind of movement and someone able to imply this pressure, there are other people on the right who can do this, other people just as good as he is. i have to say, this pledge has made the most sense to voters because it seems very simple. the fact it has loopholes and what not, i don't see people, oh, they violated the pledge, but there is that loophole. people now are looking for congress to make some common sense decisions and tom cole sounds like he's making common sense. his argument is as simple as no new taxes. >> thank you so much, once again, do appreciate yo
to raise taxes on folks who earn more than $250,000. he repeated that sentiment today. several other republicans said they'll violate his pledge. is there a full fledged revolt now against norquist? >> i think he is losing his influence. i have to add to karen's insight, democrats have elevated him, so has the media. the fact we are talking about him now adds to his mystique and power. i think grover used to be one of the only games in town when it came to spokesmen for this kind of...
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i know there's hand wringing out there, maybe the folks on the right say under obama our taxes have gone up and we may more in taxes than we've ever paid and attempt to say, we're not-- >> this is long-term by the president and his allies to create an intellectual justification to raise taxes and in this case, they use the reagan years and often went back to times after world 2, where we were the only big kind of big, healthy industrial economy to say look, we grew then. and again, the point is that we're in a slow growth economy, high unemployment economy, a more competitive world thanks in part to our policies of the past, we need to compete and the highest corporate tax rate in the world, what america has is not the way to be competitive. >> to make the argument we've made is to raise taxes and revenues and approach the fiscal cliff and argument from small businesses and others, if you increase our rate, we're either going to have to layoff individuals, not going to hire anybody else right now, and so, therefore, this economy that's already stalled is not going to grow at a clip. >> y
i know there's hand wringing out there, maybe the folks on the right say under obama our taxes have gone up and we may more in taxes than we've ever paid and attempt to say, we're not-- >> this is long-term by the president and his allies to create an intellectual justification to raise taxes and in this case, they use the reagan years and often went back to times after world 2, where we were the only big kind of big, healthy industrial economy to say look, we grew then. and again, the...
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if president obama wants republicans to agree not only to allow the top tax rates to go up, but also put a new millionaire surtax, new stimulus funding, there's no way republicans do that without many entitlement reform. i think the democrats are prepared to allow, and that's why i just think that i agree with the congressman. i think that we are likely not to get a deal before the beginning of the year. >> but do you think it was a senator lindsey graham indicated there at the beginning, do you think it was a political calculation or is a political calculation on the part of the white house? >> well, i think there are political calculations being made by everybody in washington right now, but i don't think it's a secret that the democrats believe, in a lot of cases, that they have the upper hand in the p.r. war over this issue. >> perry, this is grover norquist just a few hours ago on "meet the press." take a listen. >> every republican who had impure thoughts about maybe i could raise taxes a little because the other guys will be reasonable have to go back to the drawing board. the
if president obama wants republicans to agree not only to allow the top tax rates to go up, but also put a new millionaire surtax, new stimulus funding, there's no way republicans do that without many entitlement reform. i think the democrats are prepared to allow, and that's why i just think that i agree with the congressman. i think that we are likely not to get a deal before the beginning of the year. >> but do you think it was a senator lindsey graham indicated there at the beginning,...
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obama ran on higher taxes for the wealthy and won. lz, shouldn't he be making the same argument? that is what he ran on. >> absolutely. you know what i find interesting, if you look at the statistics, many of the blue states that supported president obama are some of the richest states in the country. and so not only did you have him defeat romney pretty handedly in the electoral college, but people willing to sacrifice their own money to make sure that president obama, his policies made it to the white house. you know, it was the exact opposite in just the republicans. some of the red states were some of the poorest states in the country. so i think it is very interesting that when you see average american citizens who happen to be making a little bit more money willing to sacrifice for the good of the country, i think that's a good message and something to get behind and stand on. >> lz, our producers are here, can we keep them over the break? i want to be the mediator, do we have time for that? can we do that? stay on the other side of the break. i'm starting with the republic
obama ran on higher taxes for the wealthy and won. lz, shouldn't he be making the same argument? that is what he ran on. >> absolutely. you know what i find interesting, if you look at the statistics, many of the blue states that supported president obama are some of the richest states in the country. and so not only did you have him defeat romney pretty handedly in the electoral college, but people willing to sacrifice their own money to make sure that president obama, his policies made...
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as the financial times points out they endorsed president obama. this is the same kind of proposal that president obama took to congress two years ago that got zero votes. this is the exact heavy on the revenue side, $1.6 trillion on tax increases, low on spending side and then he adds $200 billion of new spending. on top of that something we've never heard of before, he wants congress to basically give up the authorization to raise the debt limit which is part of their constitutional powers and he wants a bank check. this is very unserious and the speaker is frustrated. >> heather: i would like to break that apart. president calls for $1.6 trillion in tax increases, that is double what was previously suggested. so what part of this plan along with the $600 billion in saving including medicare that suggested in the $200 billion in additional spending, what part of this plan is a balanced or bipartisan approach? >> i bet john boehner things the grand bargain was good deal last year. the chicken question is john boehner having to blink. president was
as the financial times points out they endorsed president obama. this is the same kind of proposal that president obama took to congress two years ago that got zero votes. this is the exact heavy on the revenue side, $1.6 trillion on tax increases, low on spending side and then he adds $200 billion of new spending. on top of that something we've never heard of before, he wants congress to basically give up the authorization to raise the debt limit which is part of their constitutional powers...